Need support, upgrade or not?

[Mike @mikegf Canberra Australia]

I’ve had my original Robox (single head) unit for about 20 mths. Apart from the first few months the unit has been nothing but trouble. I do only use it occasionally - but each time its takes about 2-3 hours to get right (my worst is 5 hrs) usually including multiple purges, filament removal, occasional failed prints etc (all with the associated heating/cooling times). Only Robox filament has been used and in one case on a brand new reel the filament snapped inside the extruder (that was the 5 hrs including trawling through the support site!). In fact I just got a small job STARTED (not even the first layer completed) after 2 hrs 15 min. I know I have a 24V cable issue (worked around) and suspect a head issue, but with a dual head upgrade (which would solve at least those issues) costing $700+ delivered and no guarantee that the problems won’t persist I am reluctant to upgrade (and throw good money after bad).

With the short non-EU warranty expired (12 mths), the Australian distributor largely out of the game (he only seems to be selling off his remaining filament stock - no machines or parts) and the exorbitant freight charges to/from UK (based on a direct buy for my previous company about $250 each way) it seems that the only positive I can see for this unit is the fact that most of it can go into the recycling bin. I do realise that technically my problems with the the unit probably breaches our consumer laws but with the company in the UK I am not naive enough to expect any support in this regard.

Is this poor experience common with the Robox - ie typical of my previous experience of UK engineering output (as a professional engineer and also owner of a Land Rover) or did I just get a “Friday afternoon before long weekend” production model? For users with other brand machines is this just typical of the 3D printers on the whole (ie it would be a waste of money to replace with other brand unit) or just the Robox? I have seen a myriad of individual issues on the site but most go back to well before I bought me machine.

Any comments would be appreciated as I am now stuck with only a few choices - 1) just persist with the problems and allocate a whole day to each print job, 2) Spend the money on the upgrade (which while dual material would be nice is not functionally essential), or 3) write off the investment, break up into components and place most in recycle bin (with the electronics in the trash).

PS The first layer is now almost done successfully so I only have to it and watch it for another 2 hrs to complete!!!

• This topic was modified 1 week ago by  Pete. Reason: edited title to match content

[Mike @mikegf Canberra Australia]

Still interested in any comments.

But having just realised that Robox ABS is being pretty much discontinued in Australia (Aussie3D only with PLA, Element14 “until stocks last” of old stock and Wiltronics only with old stock - none with black or white.) the final option (trashing the unit and looking elsewhere for a new printer) is looking good (esp once my current stock of ABS is exhausted, noting it is $30 for freight alone to get a reel from the UK)

[click @click My Robox is a Green Kickstarter Limited Edition]

I didn’t use exclusively Robox filament. Other ABS brands worked well as well as thrid party PLA.

Also, at this forum we witnessed a few units that were troublesome but many others are still using theirs.

Only thing I can easily agree with you is that Robox is not cheap printer - especially parts that do fail. For instance pogo pins that cause some of the issues with connectivity are £52 + delivery! Heads are weak point, too - £130+ when they fail. (I’m on my 6th currently - luckily first two were replaced under warranty) Many other printer’s heads do not fail with all or nothing and they are far more serviceable.

[Charles Jackson @chazr33gtr I have a RoboxDual United Kingdom]

That’s seems a very unfortunate situation.. I’ve had a variety of problems with my Roboxes over my 2 years of solid use see list below but not to the extent you seem to have experienced. Its a shame as money wise I’ve just about broken even with all my print jobs as I’ve had to fork out for lots of Dual Heads and other components to keep it working. but there is a few rays of sunshine and some 3rd party developments (by myself and others) that will keep the Robox going and significantly improve its useability…

1. Z Lead screws causing skewed gantry as they using steel shafts with steel nuts.. any engineer will tell you that for moving systems, dissimilar metals shouldn’t be used
2. 5 Dual heads, leaking, seals failing or poor manufacturing tolerances e.g. push fit! screw threaded components. These were all using Automaker software before anyone jumps in about my use of Slic3r, RoboxSlicer Extension or Repetier & CURA 3.3. Dual head faults have now apparently been fixed when CEL spotted issues. I will let you know as I have a brand new Dual Head and we shall see.
3. Pogo Pins on X-Carriage failing.. but this was resolved by CEL in later printers (but no product recall or free fix for earlier models)
4. PTFE Bowden tubes tearing, failing - replaced with better tubing
5. Failing of the PTFE tube clamp on the X-Carriage
6. 24V DC cable intermittent failure.. resolved with thicker wiring and soldering the cable direct to the X- Carriage PCB
7. Motherboards popping, Head PCB’s failing but this has been due to tinkering but..some better circuitboard design, overload protection etc wouldn’t go amiss.

Having said all that, I was lucky for CEL to provide me with a Single X Ruby Olsson nozzle for testing. And since @17bt redesigning the Z lead screws (you cant buy the Z axis motor assembly even in the UK!) I’ve been churning out parts pretty rapidly for months on end in exotic abrasive materials.

For the cost of the printer (let alone a Robox Pro @ £4K) these design issues or emergent issues shouldn’t happen. Look at an adjacent market with similar priced products (e.g. high end Home Cinema, High end PC’) and there would be product recalls if any issue occurred. It should just work. But there are a few bits and pieces that Mike (@17bt) and myself do such as lead screw replacements that make the printer much more reliable. Along with full Repetier / CURA 3.3 support making the printing workflow sooooooo much better than Automaker.. This will be released to the masses in the next month or so provided day jobs don’t get in the way too much!. Even got a redesign of the head being manufactured.

 

Aerospace Engineer with a creative itch being scratched by Robox!

[Pete @pete I have both RoboxDual and other Robox versions CEL HQ Bristol UK]

Robox is designed and supported by the UK team for the UK and local areas. It has been distributed to other regions such as Australia by a partner business. Unfortunately support for distributors and their customers has been disappointing where the UK team have not been involved and this has lead to the break down of some supply lines. We are working on setting this up again by removing the bad link and setting up new distribution chains.

Although there are many systems which can go wrong in a 3D printer we are very experienced in troubleshooting based on symptoms. If you haven’t already you should contact our support team via the support portal. The link is in my forum signature.

I would recommend resolving the issues you have before complicating it with an upgrade. Typically it will be something simple which leads to other symptoms so please be patient and follow the instructions of the support team carefully.

For materials. I choose TitanX ABS almost exclusively for my own projects now. I use up remaining PETG in between printing things for myself and pull out nylon when it is required.

The old ABS and PLA we had back in 2015 is very much inferior to the current offerings.

For official support please visit www.cel-robox.com/support/ and create a ticket

[Mike @mikegf Canberra Australia]

Pete,

Thanks for the hints but unfortunately TitanX is not available in Aus (only the old 2015 stock in useless colours) and as mentioned it is $30 alone for freight of a reel from UK. Indeed, with the upcoming tax changes here I suspect (like numerous other vendors - Amazon the latest yesterday) that you will not be able to ship direct to Aus customers post 1 Jul 18. So with the time delays for support and the looming tax changes I need to make a decision in the next week (or the “trash it” option will be enabled by default!!).

Some of my previous issues were directly (I believe) related to the 24V cable - which took a full day for me to finally diagnose (really only when I sat watching and noted the head light flickering intermittently), and was due to the poor connector on the head leading to the pins not fully seating (seems to be the same as Charles mentioned above). Breaking the connector and replacing with heat shrink (which allows the pins to fully seat) seemed to do the trick for that one. The remaining (and continuing) problems all seem to resolve around the head, but the symptoms are often different each time. I really do dread changing materials (as that usually adds several hours) and of course as I only use the printer intermittently, I usually need to unload the filament after use (esp in winter - summer is usually dry enough here) - effectively resulting in a filament change each use! So (from a viewpoint of a semi-retired engineer) it is pretty difficult to raise any sort of meaningful support request with the varying symptoms.

Hopefully your new supply chain will include the final remaining seller of your machines (which is about an hour away from me and who convinced me to go Robox), though from their website changes it looks like they have shut their own shopfront down (back to their old “post-box” shopfront at a mates business) so not sure of their future. However from my viewpoint the very short warranty (esp for an intermittent user like me) will still mean a very high cost for fixing issues - esp since my problems only became evident just after the 12 mth mark.

Of course for me all this is complicated by the fact that I have to balance whether I spend $700+ (45% of original machine cost) upgrading the printer (with the possibly of no future parts support) or whether I buy Landrover parts (which I can’t get here and I suspect I also won’t be able to get from the UK post- Jul) in the next week!

[Mike @mikegf Canberra Australia]

Charles/Clik,

Thanks for the issues as well as your assessments (esp wrt to CEL fixing items in updated parts).

Monetarily for me any costs in fixing design defects for the printer have to be absorbed as the printer is used mainly for internal jobs (not sale)! While I probably could use it commercially I went into farming for a break from full-on engineering (victim of own success, got too senior - which gets rid of all the fun)!

[Pete @pete I have both RoboxDual and other Robox versions CEL HQ Bristol UK]

An intermittent connection of that 24V cable to the head has been the source of many confusing symptoms in the past. If you have secured it then I would expect most problems will be gone. That part is different in machines produced for the couple of years and is also retained by a metal cable hanger. This hanger is a key upgrade part for Dual Printing and this and some surrounding parts are the most complex to fit. The other parts are more obvious such as the second reel holder, extruder and tubes but these are very easy to fit in comparison.

For official support please visit www.cel-robox.com/support/ and create a ticket

[Author]

Posts