This topic contains 11 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by 
Charles Jackson 1 year, 3 months ago.
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I ran out of polymaker and thought I might try PLA as a support material when printing ABS. (Ngen Flex works great but is a bit more costly than PLA - see my other posts)
Its works fine in small prints that dont need complex internal structures as just dip the final print in boiling water and pull off the PLA which softens dramatically with needle noze pliers.
I haven’t had any problems using Robox Sunset Orange PLA as support material on small prints of say 4cm by 2cm by 1cm, However, using Robox Black as Night PLA i have had no end of issues with the filament expanding and jamming in the head on much larger prints 20cm x 10cm by 10cm.
Is this expected behaviour.. does the PLA not light being heat cycled or stationary in the head for long periods of time? The typical failure mode is it will print the raft 20cm x5cm in PLA and begin to print support strucute on the raft in PLA but only get to about 15 layers and the report filament not moving and its typically swollen in the head and a right bas***d to remove needing heated wire etc.
Cheers,
Chaz
Aerospace Engineer with a creative itch being scratched by Robox!
@chazr33gtr This is normal behavior - the heat from the hot bed for ABS causes the PLA to soften and swell where it enters the print head and leads to jamming. It is not recommended to use PLA for ABS support. There is no warranty coverage for head damage caused by using PLA as support for ABS or other high bed temp materials. I have found that even with PLA mode active there are issues using PLA as support. I don’t use PLA for support for these reasons, but you can use PolySupport if you are careful but it will do the same thing on long prints.
I operate two Betas and four Production Robox.
I am the US/Canada Technical Support engineer for the Robox.
www.hudsondesignlabs.comThanks for the info Brian. I think i was printing with lowish bed temps but I will check. it might also be a bit of heat soak in the head.
I think my favourite support material at the moment is next gen flex for parts with internals that need removing and rigid ink break-away. It works on very long prints of 6 or 7 hours or so and feeds well. But needs some force to snap off the part so not good on delicate things but good for parts that just need support from bed to where the print starts.
Polymaker is a bit of a paint to remove sometimes, especially at coarser settings or with a small support gap. Whats your support material of choice for intricate prints?
Aerospace Engineer with a creative itch being scratched by Robox!
@chazr33gtr You are welcome, George.
PolySupport is my support material of choice for pretty much everything. If your print head is not calibrated correctly it can be hard to remove, but doesn’t come with the challenges that the soluble filament creates.
That being said, PolySupport warps with hot beds, so you will have to take this into account.
I operate two Betas and four Production Robox.
I am the US/Canada Technical Support engineer for the Robox.
www.hudsondesignlabs.comApologies Ben @bhudson!
Quick updated.. had some good success with PLA and ABS using PLA as the support material. (Issues in the post were due to some short bowden tubes in my print head and wrong ambient temparature causing PLA to soften and jam at the join beteween head and head carrier).
So far the success has been on largish prints with relatively simple geometry only needing support from the bed to the model. But check out the pics of an alien bug leg
Literally soaked the part for ten seconds in near boling water and carefully with gloves just peeled the PLA away.. large sections at a time. It was printed too without support gap enabled. It was so simple and didn’t leave any residue on the ABS at all. so for none complex stuff PLA is my go to choice now as a support material… certainly for ABS
Aerospace Engineer with a creative itch being scratched by Robox!
nice,
the concept is good, the problem is the ambient temperatures required for ABS are too high for PLA. The PLA softens at very low temperatures which is what makes it work with the hot water.
We have some new PLA to test which has a higher print temperature, ill try this method out.
For official support please visit www.cel-robox.com/support/ and create a ticketYeah it worked well.. only issue was ensuring ambient didnt get too high and by combination of ambient and heatsoak into the head carrier warp/swell the PLA. my settings were as follows:
PLA
- Bed Layer 1 70°
- Bed 60°
- Nozzle 1st layer 205°
- Nozzle 195°
- Ambient 40°
ABS was same except nozzle temps of 240 and 235
The ambient bit was key Ive not tried any higher than 40 but i know thats pretty close to causing a feeding problem with the PLA at a point where it might begin to soften and not feed.
Didnt have any issues with ABS layeradhesion or warping. Let me know how you get on. Im gonna try it with PETG and PLA as a support now…
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This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by Charles Jackson.
Aerospace Engineer with a creative itch being scratched by Robox!
@simonhoult I wonder if your MatteForge PLA will behave well used like this? Does it soften in hot water? I ran out 😀
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/steelmans/matteforge-3d-print-filament?ref=68ir27
For official support please visit www.cel-robox.com/support/ and create a ticket@pete Not one of the most exciting applications for MatteForge but I will give it a try! It will soften but not quite as much as normal PLA.
STEELMANS 3D PRINT.
3D Hub: www.3dhubs.com/service/steelmans
Website: www.steelmans3d.comQuick update.. works even better with PETG… on a 50% scale version of the bug leg it peeled off very quickly on 1st go after being heated in near boiling water for about 20 seconds.
Ill check out MatteForge too not tried that material yet!
Aerospace Engineer with a creative itch being scratched by Robox!
Have to be careful of PETG - it will soften at 70-80 C and you may deform your part if you aren’t careful.
I operate two Betas and four Production Robox.
I am the US/Canada Technical Support engineer for the Robox.
www.hudsondesignlabs.comGood point.. ive had that problem when trying to speed up removal of PVA by leaving a PETG part in boiling water on the stove - didnt end well.
The 20 seconds in near biling water to deform the PLA haven’t so far had any impact on the PETG. I’ve not really cooled the part down between each submergence either but might be a good idea to do so especially on delicate parts.
So yeah just take your time with PETG.. good thing is the PLA comes off it very quickly and easily so minimal issue with affecting the PETG part.
Aerospace Engineer with a creative itch being scratched by Robox!
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